Discussion beginning 23rd May 2007
#conservapedia
[23:16] [INFO] Channel view for “#conservapedia” opened.
[23:16] —>| YOU (AKjeldsen) have joined #conservapedia
[23:16] =-= Topic for #conservapedia is “#conservapedia is for discussion of the improvement of Conservapedia http://www.conservapedia.com and general help and questions. Enjoy! | #cp-cabal is for the Cabal, which you're probably a member of.”
[23:16] =-= Topic for #conservapedia was set by Linus_M on 17. maj 2007 03:42:54
[23:17] <AKjeldsen> Greetings. Could I ask someone to tell Bohdan that I dealt with those comments impersonating him on the CP Column? I'm unable to do it myself, for obvious reasons. ;-)
[23:18] <TK> LOL
[23:18] <TK> Tmtoulouse
[23:19] <TK> or should I call you Sid?
[23:19] <TK> ahhh, but what's a name, eh?
[23:19] <AKjeldsen> I still don't know where you got that silly notion, but that'¨s not why I'm here.
[23:19] <TK> A rose, by any other name, is still a, well, sort of, Rose, no?
[23:20] <TK> notion?
[23:20] <AKjeldsen> Don't you guys have server logs on Conservapedia?
[23:20] <TK> I am sure they do
[23:20] <AKjeldsen> Have the webmaster check our IP addresses
[23:20] <TK> why would i be interested in them, though?
[23:20] <TK> even I know IP's can be faked, lol
[23:21] <AKjeldsen> Yes, but you'll see that I'm posting from an IP in Denmark, and has been for my entire CP career.
[23:21] <TK> and you should certainly know that, especially about trying to fix my location
[23:22] <TK> well, your little Denmark, has no shortage of thugs
[23:22] <AKjeldsen> Indeed. We're the bad guys of Europe
[23:22] <TK> yes, i have seen your "music" website, etc.
[23:22] <AKjeldsen> Oh, really. Want to buy a CD?
[23:22] <TK> I was once in that business, you know…..
[23:22] <TK> LOL
[23:22] <AKjeldsen> It's great.
[23:23] <TK> a partner and i had a post studio
[23:23] <TK> back in the day, when digital was just breaking in
[23:23] <TK> we did lots of TV stuff….mixing multi track to digital, etc
[23:24] <AKjeldsen> Sounds interesting
[23:24] <TK> i just got confused, because "Sid's" blog was the same address as yours
[23:24] <TK> so please forgive me.
[23:25] <AKjeldsen> Of course. I didn't even know Sid had a blog.
[23:26] <TK> oh now, surely you remember!
[23:26] <TK> he worked up to sysop, was writing an "expose" of CP
[23:27] <TK> not a bad guy, from my convos with him
[23:28] <AKjeldsen> No, I wasn't aware of that, or even that he was a Sysop.
[23:29] <AKjeldsen> Unfortunately, I don't know *everything*, although I'm working on it.
[23:30] <TK> well amazing people can be so in need of argument and so full of hate, I think
[23:31] <TK> Andy prays for all of you, every night, he told me.
[23:31] <AKjeldsen> Well, I can at least assure you that I don't hate anyone on CP. After all, I don't even know you.
[23:32] <AKjeldsen> I disagree with a lot of what you are doing, but that's another thing.
[23:32] <TK> and your rational wiki ?
[23:32] <TK> and your blog?
[23:33] <TK> i wonder if your statement would stand up under the examination of independent therapists?
[23:33] <AKjeldsen> I'm not very involved in Rational Wiki, so I'd rather not speak for them
[23:33] <TK> well, thats ok, just you and me here
[23:33] <TK> and i'm an idiot, so no worries for you, eh?
[23:34] <AKjeldsen> I don't think I've ever said that, have I?
[23:35] <AKjeldsen> As for the blog, it's definitely critical and perhaps overly snarky, but I do hope I don't come across as outright hateful.
[23:35] <TK> lol
[23:36] <TK> a man is known, if for nothing else, by the company he keeps
[23:36] <AKjeldsen> I suppose
[23:36] <TK> here, in America, we have a saying, which really isn't ours, but an old Flemish one, that says "if you lie down with pigs, don't expect to smell good."
[23:37] <TK> I can understand someone detesting conservapedia, especially since I am not YEC at all.
[23:38] <TK> but to support vandals, people who actively seek to use lies and distortions to discredit people, delve into their personal information, and spread it around…..that I cannot understand
[23:40] <AKjeldsen> Well, I don't understand a lot of the things that are going on over on your side, either, but those are the haps, I guess.
[23:40] <TK> hmmmm
[23:40] <TK> sort of the same attitude many took about the Nazis….
[23:41] <AKjeldsen> I completely fail to see the similarity
[23:42] <TK> well, of course you do
[23:42] <TK> to do otherwise would be unthinkable for a good "liberal" lol
[23:43] <TK> when good men do nothing, when seeing others doing evil, it is the same as endorsing their activities
[23:43] <TK> no matter how hard one trys to reationalize it
[23:44] <AKjeldsen> I'm afraid I have my hands so full speaking out against the things that happen on Conservapedia that it leaves me little time for anything else.
[23:44] <AKjeldsen> Speaking of which.
[23:45] <AKjeldsen> I see you made a note on mr. Schlafly's talk page about me being involved with Icewedge accounts.
[23:45] <AKjeldsen> I'll ask you to remove that, since I have never performed any vandalism, or used sock puppets in any way.
[23:46] <TK> I never said that.
[23:46] <AKjeldsen> Then what do you mean when you mention me in connection with Icewedge?
[23:46] <TK> I said most of what Bohdan attributed to the several people using the Ice account, were not the ones responsible
[23:46] <TK> rather the others i mentioned
[23:47] <TK> like i said, you lie with pigs, you stink
[23:47] <AKjeldsen> Can you prove that I personally have done anything against the rules?
[23:48] <GofG> TK: That is Guilt by Association, a fallacy
[23:48] <TK> I dont need to prove anything
[23:48] <TK> CP isnt a court of law
[23:48] <AKjeldsen> No, that's what you say.
[23:49] <TK> being since we are not a court of law, i can and do say those who provide an outlet for Nazis and terrorists are the same
[23:49] <TK> works for me :p
[23:49] <AKjeldsen> You know, it's beginning to sound like I'm the victim of defamation here.
[23:50] <TK> well, i would haul my ass, if I were you, over to the Hague and file a complaint!!
[23:51] <TK> its yet another moronic institution that could not exist without the support of the US taxpayers, lol
[23:51] <AKjeldsen> You claim, without any proof or even bothering to investigate it, that I am connected with activities that you describe as terrorism.
[23:51] <TK> Do you have a blog?
[23:51] <TK> have you ever read the posts there?
[23:51] <AKjeldsen> Yes, but I am not responsible for what other people choose to write in their comments.
[23:52] <TK> they admit to terrorist-live activities, and on their rational wiki, 1.0, they are shown planning such, and we see the results, exactly as described and planned on rational, bearing fruit
[23:52] <TK> so, if it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, I call it a duck
[23:53] <TK> of course i am not a vetranarian, or animal husbandry expert
[23:53] <TK> I have nothing personal against you.
[23:53] <TK> why do you make things personal?
[23:54] <AKjeldsen> Well, I'm not the one going around calling people terrorists
[23:55] <TK> but you are the one making defamatory statements about others
[23:55] <AKjeldsen> Where?
[23:55] <TK> and again, are you denying me my right of free thought?
[23:55] <TK> are you saying you should control what I think?
[23:55] <GofG> No, he's not.
[23:55] <AKjeldsen> How in the world could I deny you your right to free thought. I'm not a telepath, you know.
[23:55] <TK> because you making me wrong, for saying what I think, seems to be designed to do just that
[23:56] <AKjeldsen> Are you denying me my right to disagree with you?
[23:56] <TK> look up the word "terrorist"
[23:56] <TK> beside the first common definition
[23:57] <TK> terrorists undertake activities designed to intimediate or spread a false impression, like fear
[23:57] <TK> intimadate
[23:57] <TK> that is exactly what all the planning on rational 1.0, and the statements people make on your blog are intended to do.
[23:57] <TK> so, I call them "terrorists"
[23:58] <TK> that isnt far out, or out of line
[23:58] <TK> its rather precise, in fact
[23:58] <GofG> It's misleading
[23:58] <TK> Not at all. How so?
[23:58] <GofG> While that is a correct definition, it is by far not the popular one
[23:58] <TK> do they not plan "dirty tricks"?
[23:58] <AKjeldsen> I think it is extreme hyperbole, but never mind.
[23:59] <TK> in your mind it is, because you agree with them!
[23:59] <GofG> When you call someone a terrorist, most people immediatly think at least that they are doing something illegal
[23:59] <TK> cannot you see the truth?
[23:59] <TK> Am I responsible now for what other people think?
[23:59] <TK> perhaps they are the ones who should change their ways
[23:59] <TK> do you not think your are somewhat of a journalist?
[00:00] <GofG> Who are you asking?
[00:00] <AKjeldsen> Being a journalist is suddenly a bad thing, too? :D
[00:00] <TK> think how you would feel if they were doing the same sorts of things to quiet you, and your blog
[00:00] <TK> would that make you happy? Of course not!
[00:01] <TK> that is what you condone on your blog
[00:01] <AKjeldsen> Again, I am not responsible for the comments on my blog.
[00:02] <TK> Since they cannot change the way Andy thinks, instead of walking away, they are demanding he change as he thinks
[00:02] <TK> that is nazi like
[00:02] <TK> when they take the actions further, and plant false information, change edits, and cite bogus sources, that is terrorism
[00:03] <TK> and you claiming to be a good man, that is the only reason we are having this conversation now
[00:03] <AKjeldsen> Yeah, sure. If that's how you want to see it, go ahead.
[00:03] <TK> that is the objective definition of the word!
[00:03] <TK> it is no matter if you dont like it
[00:03] <TK> or me
[00:04] <AKjeldsen> To my mind, a terrorist is someone running around blowing up people for political purposes
[00:04] <AKjeldsen> Not annoying some sysops on an obscure website
[00:04] <TK> their activities fit the difinition, it is of no matter, intellectually, if what they are doing is illegal or not.
[00:04] <TK> but they are doing more than annoying
[00:04] <TK> they plant false information, attack people personally
[00:04] <TK> broadcast their home addresses
[00:04] <TK> that is terrorism
[00:05] <GofG> I'd like to see some evidence of that
[00:05] <TK> it is done with the soul intent to intimadate others
[00:05] <TK> rational wiki, they had posted what they thought was my personal information
[00:05] <GofG> intimidate*
[00:05] <TK> including addresses i have actually used, telephone numbers, etc
[00:05] <GofG> And that's terrorism?
[00:06] <AKjeldsen> If somebody has been doing that, I would suggest trying to figure out who specifically it is
[00:06] <TK> yes, if the reason for them posting it, and what they said in those threads
[00:06] <TK> they said they wished someone would go to my house and silence me
[00:06] <TK> what do you think they meant?
[00:06] <AKjeldsen> Instead of throwing guilt on everyone collectively
[00:06] <TK> that someone should try and reason with me?
[00:07] <GofG> He's right, TK . You're assigning guilt to a collective "they" instead of the individual who posted this information.
[00:07] <AKjeldsen> TK, I don't think anyone has been advocating blowing your house up.
[00:07] <AKjeldsen> And if you don't want your address to be made public, maybe you should be more careful with where you post it
[00:08] <GofG> TK: I will remind you it's against freenode guidelines to be opped when you aren't actively using op powers
[00:08] <TK> ahhhh, blame the victim! like a woman who dresses sexy, is responsible for getting raped!!
[00:08] <TK> well i am
[00:08] =-= Mode #conservapedia +b GofG!*@* by TK
[00:08] =-= GofG was booted from #conservapedia by TK__ (TK)
[00:09] <AKjeldsen> I'm not blaming the victim, it's just common prudency to be careful with such things.
[00:09] =-= Mode #conservapedia -b GofG!*@* by ChanServ
[00:09] —>| GofG (n=moc.rr.ser.cn.012-061-091-560-epc|gfoG#moc.rr.ser.cn.012-061-091-560-epc|gfoG) has joined #conservapedia
[00:09] <GofG> TK: Why did you do that?
[00:10] =-= Mode #conservapedia +b GofG!*@* by TK
[00:10] =-= GofG was booted from #conservapedia by TK (TK)
[00:10] =-= Mode #conservapedia -b GofG!*@* by ChanServ
[00:10] <AKjeldsen> See, it's exactly that kind of behavior that is the reason why so many people dislike you.
[00:10] <TK> and when someone digs up that info, and plots using it to intimidate, what then?
[00:10] —>| GofG (n=moc.rr.ser.cn.012-061-091-560-epc|gfoG#moc.rr.ser.cn.012-061-091-560-epc|gfoG) has joined #conservapedia
[00:10] <GofG> TK: Stop.
[00:10] <GofG> Give me a reason.
[00:11] <TK> CP channel is for active editors of CP
[00:11] <GofG> I am an active editor of CP
[00:11] <TK> not anymore
[00:11] <GofG> What?
[00:11] =-= Mode #conservapedia +b GofG!*@* by TK
[00:11] =-= GofG was booted from #conservapedia by TK__ (TK)
[00:11] <AKjeldsen> And that kind of behaviour.
[00:12] <TK> well, if people disagree, they have the "right" not to use CP
[00:12] =-= Mode #conservapedia -b GofG!*@* by ChanServ
[00:12] —>| GofG (n=moc.rr.ser.cn.012-061-091-560-epc|gfoG#moc.rr.ser.cn.012-061-091-560-epc|gfoG) has joined #conservapedia
[00:12] <AKjeldsen> Sure they do.
[00:12] <TK> they do not have a "right" to attack others personally
[00:12] <GofG> What do you mean?
[00:12] <TK> you don't understand what I said?
[00:12] <GofG> What do you mean I am no longer an active editor?
[00:13] <TK> you aren't are you?
[00:13] <AKjeldsen> And the more people exercise that right, the fewer editors you will have in the end.
[00:13] <GofG> I am
[00:13] <GofG> Why do you believe I am not?
[00:13] <TK> i dont think so
[00:14] <TK> what is one of your cp names?
[00:14] <TK> i am certain i saw you were blocked
[00:14] <GofG> One of mine?
[00:14] <GofG> I only have one.
[00:14] <GofG> User:Gofg
[00:14] <GofG> User:GofG
[00:14] <GofG> That is my only CP username
[00:14] <TK__> you dont come up
[00:14] <GofG> And it is: http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Special:Log&type=block&page=User:GofG
[00:14] <GofG> not block
[00:14] <GofG> not blocked
[00:14] <GofG> http://www.conservapedia.com/User:GofG
[00:14] <GofG> That?
[00:14] <AKjeldsen> * 04:32, 14 April 2007 Ed Poor (Talk | contribs) unblocked GofG (contribs) (IRC discussion )
- 23:14, 11 April 2007 Ed Poor (Talk | contribs) blocked "GofG (contribs)" with an expiry time of 1 week (aimless edit, won't submit a plan)
[00:14] <GofG> That's my userpage
[00:14] <GofG> Yes
[00:14] <GofG> I"m not blocked
[00:16] <GofG> TK: ?
[00:16] <TK> hmmmm
[00:16] |<— TK__ has left freenode (Excess Flood)
[00:17] <GofG> This is, of course, going up on my "Stupid Conversations with TK" page
[00:17] >| TK__ (n=181.081.671.42|KT#181.081.671.42|KT) has joined #conservapedia
[00:17] =-= Mode #conservapedia +o TK__ by ChanServ
[00:17] <TK> well did you see that?
[00:17] <GofG> Yes. You left the room because of excess flood.
[00:18] <TK> too long
[00:18] <TK> you didnt see it?
[00:18] <GofG> No, I didn't.
[00:18] <GofG> It must not have been sent because you left the room before it registered
[00:19] <TK> from 15 may until 22nd may
[00:19] <TK> one contrib, a minor one in warsaw pact, and all the rest talk
[00:19] <TK> violation of the 90/10 rule
[00:19] <GofG> Yes, in a 7 day sample
[00:20] <GofG> And actually, it's not a violation of the 90/10 rule
[00:20] <TK> really?
[00:20] <GofG> It would be a violation of a 70/20 rule if one existed
[00:20] <TK> lol
[00:20] <GofG> Maybe even a 70/10 rule, if you don't count minor edits
[00:20] <TK> how so?
[00:20] <GofG> 7 talk edits, 2 article edits
[00:21] <TK> ahhh
[00:21] <TK> and what of the commandment?
[00:21] <AKjeldsen> Does it feel good to have the power, TK?
[00:21] <GofG> Not only that, TK, but I doubt you can block based on a 7 day sample.
[00:21] <TK> it feels good to thawrt anyone who wiggles and worms, and tries to minipulate the intent of rules
[00:22] <TK> i am looking at 9 march until now
[00:22] <AKjeldsen> Of which, of course, you are the final arbiter
[00:22] <GofG> If you would notice, before that, I had about 30 edits that were nothing but fixing articles
[00:22] <TK> yes, to make sure you were not blocked, lol
[00:22] <GofG> That's not why
[00:22] <TK> since we are not a court, i can and do use intent
[00:22] <GofG> I was tired of arguing, much like you are, I'm sure, and so I took a step back to edit some articles.
[00:22] <AKjeldsen> Think carefully, TK. Can CP afford to lose another good editor?
[00:22] <TK> yes, i am tired
[00:23] <GofG> That's why the 90/10 rule is there, so that arguing doesn't drone on, right?
[00:23] <TK> God will provide..we don't worry or adapt your line of thought
[00:23] <AKjeldsen> Yes, but God does not edit articles, does He?
[00:23] <TK> through his inspiration, he does
[00:24] <AKjeldsen> Perhaps so.
[00:24] <GofG> Do you think God is a Young Earth Creationist?
[00:24] <GofG> That's not a serious question, hehe… It just sprang into my head, sorry :)
[00:24] <TK> much like your comment about freenode rules to me?
[00:25] <TK> your intention was to be "helpful" ?
[00:25] <GofG> yeah, pretty much
[00:25] <TK> it wasnt and we both know it
[00:25] <GofG> No, my intention was to inform you of the guildlines of freenode
[00:25] <TK> and why was that?
[00:25] <GofG> I note with some distaste you chose to ignore me.
[00:25] <GofG> Because you were breaking the guidlines.
[00:25] <TK> guidelines are not rules
[00:25] <GofG> That's true
[00:26] <GofG> You weren't breaking any rules
[00:26] <GofG> Aren't
[00:26] <TK> and it was a freenode admin who suggested, because of the trouble here with bogus users, to stay opd
[00:26] <GofG> Well then, there's no reason for me to suggest it again
[00:26] <TK> so your intent in telling me of the guideline was what?
[00:26] <TK> this is what I mean!
[00:26] <GofG> I believed you were breaking it
[00:26] <GofG> I realize now that you weren't
[00:26] <TK> see what you are doing?
[00:26] <GofG> But I didn't have that piece of information when i made the request
[00:26] <TK> you dont want a peace
[00:27] <TK> you want a continuation of arguing
[00:27] <TK> otherwise you wouldnt do what you did
[00:27] <GofG> What are you talking about? I fail to see a line of logic leading to that
[00:28] <TK> yes, you always do
[00:28] <TK> whenever you become uncomfortable
[00:28] <TK> because you dont want it to go to intimdation
[00:28] <AKjeldsen> TK, I think you would find your life to be much easier if you didn't see everything as an attack on you personally.
[00:28] <TK> but that is what you were going for
[00:28] <GofG> intimidation
[00:28] <TK> again
[00:28] <AKjeldsen> Just a friendly piece of advice.
[00:28] <TK> your intent in correcting my piss poor spelling is for what?
[00:29] <TK> didnt stop me from getting my masters, lol
[00:29] <GofG> I noticed it was the only word I've seen you misspell ever, really.
[00:29] <TK> and your intent in pointing out, is?
[00:29] <TK> just one of trying to feel superior in some way?
[00:29] <GofG> It's a habit of mine. Kind of an obsession. if you would like, to prove I was not insulting your intelligence, I can cite multiple instances in which I correct people who I consider close to me.
[00:30] <GofG> No, that's not what I was doing
[00:30] <TK> and if you know it, and how people react to it, you are saying you are a lesser ape, in not being able to control your actions?
[00:31] <GofG> I'm no lesser or greater than anyone else who has an obsession. Some people, for instance, have an obsession with straightening picture frames. Or making their bed sheets fall even on both sides of the bed. Are these people lesser apes?
[00:31] <TK> I don't know, wasnt an anthro major :p
[00:31] <GofG> Okay then
[00:32] <TK> i do know with these types of obsessions and the argumentative nature of many users, there can never be a peace
[00:32] <GofG> We just spent 5 minutes arguing because I corrected your spelling, and you are accusing me of purposefully extending arguments
[00:32] <AKjeldsen> What was your major anywway, just out of curiosity?
[00:32] <TK> what will you all do when the wiki is closed and by invite only? you think the bannings are bad now? wait until then!
[00:33] <TK> where will you go and argue?
[00:33] <TK> WP?
[00:33] <GofG> I'm a mediator on Wikipdia
[00:33] <GofG> pedia
[00:33] <GofG> I solve arguments there
[00:33] <TK> they will bounce u like they do everyone, eventually
[00:33] <GofG> I have not yet gotten into an argument, ever, on Wikipedia
[00:33] <GofG> with 1400+ edits, almost entirely Talk:
[00:33] <TK> yes, and I could, just by practicing my craft, get the wold pack after you in less than two weeks,lol
[00:34] <AKjeldsen> If you ever go to invite only, you will have consigned yourself to obscurity, so it will all be moot by then.
[00:34] <TK> wolf
[00:34] <GofG> I seriously doubt that
[00:34] <TK> not to the audience andy is after
[00:34] <TK> thats all he cares about
[00:34] <AKjeldsen> Preaching to the choir.
[00:34] <TK> yes
[00:34] <TK> do you guys think i dont know that?
[00:34] <GofG> Don't know what?
[00:34] <TK> you need a reality check, lol
[00:35] <GofG> I'm interested in hearing more about your ability to "set the wolf pack on me", by the way.
[00:35] <TK> he is interested in preaching to the choir
[00:35] <AKjeldsen> Well, on most issues, I don't know what you think.
[00:35] <TK> invite me to demonstrate it?
[00:35] <GofG> Yes.
[00:35] <TK> because you make suppositions, AK
[00:35] <TK> and prefer that to facts, lol
[00:35] <AKjeldsen> Guilty as charged
[00:35] <AKjeldsen> Comes with my major, I guess
[00:35] <TK> drums?
[00:36] <AKjeldsen> Excuse me?
[00:36] <GofG> He wants you to announce your major.
[00:36] <AKjeldsen> Ah, history.
[00:36] <AKjeldsen> Medieval history, mostly.
[00:37] <AKjeldsen> Very few facts there.
[00:37] <GofG> hehe
[00:39] <TK> well, guess that was funny, lol
[00:40] <AKjeldsen> Anyway, to go back to the start: TK, could I ask you to tell Bohdan that the impersonation issue on my blog has been taken care of. The poor guy seemed a bit distraught about it.
[00:40] <AKjeldsen> And I don't like that kind of thing, either
[00:40] <GofG> I'm out. Bye guys.
[00:40] <TK> On the Wordpress-CP column, AKjeldsen struck out the aledged Bodhan
[00:40] <TK> |remark, and added a warning to the individual involved about
[00:40] <TK> |impersonating someone else.
[00:41] <AKjeldsen> Bye.
[00:41] <TK> that from a private posting on CP
[00:41] <AKjeldsen> Thanks
[00:41] <TK> I responded:
[00:41] <TK> Yes, he made it a point to sign into IRC and announce it to me, lol. Just a ploy to distance himself and the others who see themselves as "intellectuals" from the more vandal happy kids. They are really hating being called "terrorists". It is hurting them badly.
[00:41] <AKjeldsen> Well, if that's the way you want to see it.
[00:41] <TK> when you guys stop the personal attacks, we will end it all
[00:42] <TK> and invite you back
[00:42] <AKjeldsen> Terribly sorry, but I don't really have much of an interest in coming back as long as things are run the way they are now.
[00:43] <AKjeldsen> Besides, I'm just not part of the choir, I guess
[00:43] <TK> well, wasnt that my point from the beginning?
[00:44] <TK> You guys had your expectations, and your ideas that CP should be run like WP.
[00:44] <TK> when you couldnt change it, you then switched to ridicule, and sabotage
[00:44] <TK> it is illogical to expect any wiki to be run like WP
[00:44] <AKjeldsen> It might surprise you to learn that I am actually not a great fan of Wikipedia
[00:44] <GofG> Most are, TK
[00:44] <TK> the only thing they have in common is software.
[00:45] <TK> it matters not what "most" are
[00:45] <TK> that statement has no logic
[00:45] <TK> i cannot say which way is the "best" way, can you?
[00:45] <GofG> Nope, you can't. I can, however, say, that every wiki I've been on except CP has been run similarly to WP
[00:46] <GofG> Therefore, for me, it was logical to expect CP to be run similarly, up until the point where I saw "Differences from Wikipedia."
[00:46] <TK> yes, and that might well be "fact"
[00:46] <GofG> By the way…
[00:47] <TK> GofG, while a 5-minute review of Richard's edits would likely answer your question, I'd like to set a precedent here: One editor does not have standing to demand the reason for a block of another editor. In legal terminology, that means you lack "standing" to assert a privilege for someone else. One reason for this is simply to conserve resources for those who are asserting their own cause, and to minimize distractions. In this case, you don't want to s
[00:47] <TK> Retrieved from "http://www.conservapedia.com/User_talk:Aschlafly"
[00:47] <TK> You wanted "policy" and now you have it. ;-)
[00:48] <TK> "Ask, and ye shall receive." LOL
[00:48] <GofG> I was just blocked.
[00:48] <TK> No!
[00:48] <GofG> By you.
[00:48] <TK> you treat me like an ass, and insult, and you are somehow surprised?
[00:48] <TK> goodness!
[00:49] <TK> take it up with the mediation board
[00:49] <GofG> Please show me one ounce of evidence that shows I treated you like an ass…
[00:49] <AKjeldsen> Which we all know is a farce.
[00:49] <TK> oh, wait, we don't have one!
[00:50] <AKjeldsen> TK, your problem is that you use your powers as sysop as a weapon in personal conflicts, as in this very situation.
[00:50] <AKjeldsen> That breeds a lot of resentment
[00:50] <TK> yes, i agree
[00:51] <TK> but then, the tactics and sabotage used against WP does as well
[00:51] <AKjeldsen> And it undermines the trust that the other users would otherwise have in the sysops
[00:51] <TK> some yes
[00:51] <AKjeldsen> And damages Conservapedia in th elong run
[00:51] <TK> usually those who have vandalized or have the intent to
[00:51] <TK> well, it all damages
[00:51] <GofG> TK: I would like to point out that I am no longer an active contributor to CP
[00:52] <TK> so, maybe you should have been removed
[00:52] <AKjeldsen> Or those who have been banned, mostly by you, for all sorts of trivial or personal reasons
[00:52] <TK> thanks for pointing that out to me
[00:52] <GofG> You're quite welcome.
[00:52] * GofG aways punishment.
[00:52] <TK> such anger!
[00:52] <GofG> awaits*
[00:53] <TK> if you dislike CP so much, why don't you just ignore it? Did I miss your appointment as some avenging angel?
[00:53] <GofG> I don't personally dislike CP. I think it has potential to become something great, if the sysops would simply stop arbitrarily banning everyone.
[00:53] <TK> well, you seem to be pretty smart
[00:54] <GofG> Thanks
[00:54] <AKjeldsen> Well, as you yourself said: "when good men do nothing, when seeing others doing evil, it is the same as endorsing their activities"
[00:54] <GofG> You're not half bad yourself :)
[00:54] <TK> so why cannot you recognize, that because CP is what it is, the rules used on WP cannot all be workable?
[00:54] <GofG> That's true
[00:55] <AKjeldsen> Of course they can't. The problem is that CP effectively doesn't have any rules, only the whims of the sysops.
[00:55] <TK> so, instead of making things personal, perhaps others like you, could turn down the volume, and it would have a corresponding effect on the sysops?
[00:55] <GofG> I would like to point out, however, on the "Differences from Wikipedia" page, it says something like "We do not ban users for comments made outside of Conservapedia (like on blogs) [Yes, it literally mentions blogs]" and I believe this ban was done in such a manner.
[00:55] <TK> oh, please, i didnt ride that horse
[00:55] <TK> dont saddle me with it :p
[00:56] <GofG> That's fine. Just please ask Andy or someone to change it, or change it yourself, because I believe a huge portion of the blocks made were because of postings to AKjeldsen's blog.
[00:56] <GofG> or other blogs
[00:57] <GofG> Perhaps even add "Unlike Wikipedia, a huge portion of our blocks are based on comments made outside of Conservapedia."
[00:57] <GofG> Well, I gotta go
[00:57] |< GofG has left freenode (Client Quit)
[00:58] <TK> well, he is partially right
[00:58] <AKjeldsen> Yes
[00:59] <TK> I think I posted fairly recently, that while some of my blocks were not based on what was on your blog or rational, i did use them to connect and confirm actual abuse or vandalism on CP
[00:59] <TK> so, no rule was violated.
[00:59] <TK> it only made me feel more certain that what I was doing was not unfair.
[01:00] <AKjeldsen> Would it have bothered you if rules had been violated?
[01:01] <TK> yes, it would have
[01:01] <TK> but see, maybe you miss this
[01:02] <TK> since those running CP acknowledge moral laws, above legal ones, our POV is way different
[01:03] <AKjeldsen> Now, how can you be certain that I don't acknowledge moral laws? ;)
[01:04] <AKjeldsen> Maybe I'm actually doing what I do because of a dedication to moral laws
[01:04] <TK> i am not certain
[01:05] <TK> what i am certain of, those who hate CP, always cite legalities
[01:05] <TK> and while that might work well on a secular wiki, like WP, it doesn't translate to CP
[01:07] <AKjeldsen> Why not?
[01:07] <TK> because while legalties examine only "evidence" moral laws go beyond that to intent
[01:08] <TK> ergo, someone hiding behind the letter of our laws, making one minor edit, to 8 talk page diatribes insulting others, is legal, morally it isnt
[01:09] <TK> and to throw that up as a citation against being blocked is minipulation, therefore a bad intent
[01:10] <AKjeldsen> Oh, I agree with that. The problem is that the vast majority of 'cases' are nowhere as clear-cut as that
[01:11] >| Linus_M (n=ten.3leveL.1atnaltA.1laiD.71.56.921.4-pulaid|ehtsunil#ten.3leveL.1atnaltA.1laiD.71.56.921.4-pulaid|ehtsunil) has joined #conservapedia
[01:13] <TK> Linus, you know you are a banned user
[01:13] <Linus_M> k
[01:13] <Linus_M> Farewell.
[01:13] <| Linus_M has left #conservapedia
[01:13] =-= Mode #conservapedia +b Linus_M!*@* by TK
[01:14] <AKjeldsen> Anyway, it's getting frightfully late here. But it was interesting to talk with you, TK.
[01:15] <TK> well the same…you do some thinking about how matters can be better resolved
[01:15] <TK> and i shall too
[01:15] <TK> and if you were sincere about the Bohdan, deal, my thanks
[01:16] <AKjeldsen> You're welcome. Even I have my standards.
[01:16] <AKjeldsen> See you around, maybe.
[01:16] <TK> too bad they dont apply to me and others
[01:16] <AKjeldsen> Yeah, well - a guy's got to stand up for what he believes in.
[01:17] <TK> yes, personal attacks.
[01:18] <AKjeldsen> Nah, transparency and accountability.
[01:18] <AKjeldsen> And rule of law and all that.
[01:18] <TK> well, that depends on where you live, i guess
[01:18] <TK> maybe you should be "helping" the poor russians
[01:18] <AKjeldsen> Probably. Have a nice day, TK.
[01:19] =-= Mode #conservapedia +b AKjeldsen!*@* by TK
[01:19] =-= YOU (AKjeldsen) have been booted from #conservapedia by TK__ (TK__)
